If you go to the Senate link to the for the text of the Senate Finance Committee Health Care Bill you will get following memo.
MEMORANDUM
October 2, 2009
To: Reporters and Editors
From: Scott Mulhauser and Erin Shields for Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus
Re: The full text of the America’s Healthy Future Act
The full text of the America’s Healthy Future Act as amended is now available on the Finance Committee website at http://www.finance.senate.gov/sitepages/leg/LEG%202009/100209_Americas_Healthy_Future_Act_AMENDED.pdf. Chairman Baucus has requested cost estimates of the package by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation. The Committee will vote on the legislation following its receipt of those analyses.
Image of the memo:
Pleas note the title of the memo.
The full text of the America’s Healthy Future Act
If you manage (the site has been slammed today) to get the 1.5MB pdf at that link to download you see something interesting, the title is:
Chairman’s Mark
America’s Healthy Future Act of 2009
Image of title page.
It's not the full text of the bill as claimed. It's an edited Chairman's mark. The Chairman's mark is more of an outline, a plan. Not the bill, not the DETAILS, with Congress the devil is in the details.
If this is what goes to the floor of the Senate for a vote it is a SCAM. All the nuts of bolts of how much its going to cost, who pays (us), the restrictions that will be placed on health care will be added later by bureaucrats.
Amanda Carpenter at the Washington Times calls it the "Vapor Bill."
Despite repeated promises from the Obama administration to make legislation more transparent and accessible, the Senate Finance Committee will vote on a plain-English version of health care legislation Tuesday, but not the actual legislative text that could become law.
Write your congresscritter. DEMAND the immediate release of the full text.
Does anyone know if congress votes based on Chairman's Marks regularly and we just don't hear about it because we always assume they actually read bills before voting or is this something new?
ReplyDeleteObama flip-flops on insurance mandate
ReplyDeleteAn individual mandate would effectively impose an additional tax on middle-class Americans already struggling to pay for health care.
[]
Without that premium income, PriceWaterhouseCoopers estimates that by 2019, a family policy will cost $4,000 more under the Baucus plan than it would in the absence of reform.
Caligula appointed his horse a senator.
ReplyDelete2000 years later, we make do with the rear half of the horse.
ęschew_σbfuscation said...
ReplyDeleteMy guess is they vote on the Marks. Or worse.
Crap-n-Fraud had place holders, blank pages for legislation to be inserted at a later date.
Literally anything could be stuck in there and would have been considered to have been voted on.
The Plan, all along, is control.
ReplyDeleteThe Bill, all along, is control.
Control over you.
Your choices.
No choices eventually.
Squatch, that's exactly it. This is a POWER GRAB. My personally belief is that they don't really care what's in it beyond power for themselves.
ReplyDeleteMy personal belief, even. ; )
ReplyDeleteThis is ridiculous. An increase in ten years of $4,000?
ReplyDeleteNo congresscritter who wants to be reelected should vote yes on that.
With something like this between the votes and the signing, single payer, mandates, all the stuff the (D)s really want can get insert into the bill without a vote without anyone knowing it until it's published to the Federal Register.
ReplyDeleteThe Democrats should probably be careful what they wish for, they might get it. Having worked for and with various government agencies, I can see implementation of this being a complete disaster. Bad enough experience for enough citizens and it could make them a permanent minority party.
ReplyDeleteWith something like this between the votes and the signing, single payer, mandates, all the stuff the (D)s really want can get insert into the bill without a vote without anyone knowing it until it's published to the Federal Register.
ReplyDeleteAnd the MSM is talking about Rush again.
Eye off the ball, or on it depending on the team you're playing for.
Correspondence Committee said... This is a POWER GRAB.
ReplyDeleteIt certainly is. If this Mad Lib-style document is passed and they add all of the garbage we know they'll add, our only chance will be laid out for us. Spend every day until the 2010 elections finding and adding up all the absurdities in the bill. Having the most onerous portions removed/corrected before they kick in will be our only chance. Conservative and moderate politicians can run and win on that kind of platform. I can picture big pink erasers being the dominant symbol at campaign rallies next summer.
Did you dig this up yourself JCM ?
ReplyDeleteIf so, Major Kudos seem to be in order here.
Limbaugh wants to buy a football team. Surely, that's up to the NFL?
ReplyDeleteThis legislation is very serious. We need to know more about it, and a whole lot less about an entertainer who likes football.
Caligula's horse indeed.
ReplyDeleteWhen government controls payment and delivery of health care. Along will come the demand to regulate life style choices that impact health, sorry no more steak and baked potatoes smothered in butter and sour cream.
ReplyDeleteAny lifestyle choices that is but risky sexual behavior......
20 years ago they started after cigarettes, some of us then said, don't let them or hamburgers and french fries will be next.
I'm not being paranoid, it is want the left has done in the past. It's in the words they've spoken when they don't think it will be reported.
It's not the least bit about providing health care.
It's about controlling 61% of the GDP. It's about controlling the individual, making you dependent on the government for you very life.
It's a counter revolution, designed to overturn the foundations of this nation.
Individual Liberty.
Consent of the Governed.
Freedom within an ordered society, with limited government.
Rush should just buy the NFL, and piss them all off for good.
ReplyDeleteIt has that feel, doesn't it, JCM?
ReplyDeleteCentaur, even Rush doesn't have that kind of money.
ReplyDeleteRush should just buy the NFL, and piss them all off for good.
ReplyDeleteHeh.
Thread on that coming up after this one.
sasquatchonsteroids said...
ReplyDeleteSaw some rumblings and grumblings, from sources I back check.
Went to the source documents.
The jpgs above are images taken directly from the source documents. I have both the originals downloaded today, and the images. Should they try to change out and claim we're full it.
IMHO, it's worse than the rumblings and grumblings.
It is a bait and switch, a crime which people do time for.
Sign a contract for this, but what you get is not what was in the contract.
The Senate Finance Committee is attempting to perpetrate a fraud.
(On what's happening with Rush, I should say - not on his purchase of the NFL. ; )
ReplyDeleteI really don't have the time to go digging for all of this stuff, so a big Thanks for the people who do the grinding.
ReplyDeleteIt's appreciated, believe me.
Heh. Look forward to it, CC.
ReplyDeleteFrom Rick Moran at American Thinker:
ReplyDeleteThe fraud and dishonesty in the Baucus bill
You really have to read this entire piece by Jeffrey Anderson in the New York Post to get a sense of how frighteningly dishonest the gimmicks used by Senator Baucus to get the CBO to sign off on his health care bill.
The first bit of rank dishonesty lies in the fact that the CBO is calculating the bill's cost in the next decade starting next year. The problem is that the bill wouldn't even take effect fully until 2015!
But the CBO exposed the truth by taking the rare step of calculating what the bill would cost in its second 10 years. In its second decade alone, the CBO projects, the bill's costs would triple -- to $2.8 trillion. The taxes and fines it levies would also triple -- to $1.8 trillion. And its cuts to Medicare and related federal health programs would quadruple -- to $1.9 trillion.
In its first two decades combined, the bill would cost $3.6 trillion and would raise taxes by $2.3 trillion.
We're just getting started folks.
Baucus' most elementary trick was to have the bill's "first 10 years" include several years when it hadn't really kicked in. It was scored for 2010 to 2019, yet it wouldn't be in full swing until 2015 -- when its costs would exceed those of its first five years combined.
In fact, the bill wouldn't cost anything in 2010. In its real first decade (2011-20), it would cost more than $1 trillion.
Furthermore, the CBO projects that, by the end of 2030, the Baucus bill would have cut spending on Medicare and other existing health programs by more than $2.6 trillion.
Incredibly, the payments to doctors and hospitals will almost guarantee that no doctor will come within a country mile of a Medicare patient in the future:
Also, Baucus' savings are highly suspect. As the CBO notes, his bill would cut Medicare payments to doctors by 25 percent in 2011, then hold them at that level perpetually. In other words, given inflation, Baucus proposes endless cuts in what the program pays physicians and others.
Assuming 3 percent annual inflation, by 2014 doctors' real incomes from Medicare payments would be cut by a third from 2010. By 2025, they'd be cut in half.
If Baucus' cuts actually go through, physicians' willingness to see Medicare patients would dwindle alongside their pay. But if the cuts don't actually get made, Baucus' plan would explode the federal deficit.
Thankfully, this plan is DOA in the House and whatever compromise is reached in conference committee, very few elements of the Baucus bill will pass muster.
But the important thing about this bill is that getting it through committee moves the process along. What we've seen so far in the health care reform drama is simply the prologue.
The final act will play out behind closed doors as Democrats try to forge a consensus on what a majority of them can vote for.
Just curious: how many pages is this "piece of legislation"? Even if it's not the full text ...
ReplyDeleteI'm out. Have a good evening, everyone!
ReplyDeleteJCM said...
ReplyDeleteObama flip-flops on insurance mandate
Yeah, right.
It's just a game. Obama will now claim he doesn't like the mandate but when Congress delivers the bill, which by the way, will bear zero resemblance to what they actually voted on... Obama will sign it anyway with mandates and a public option and then he'll blame the Congress while claiming an imperfect bill is better than nothing.
Centaur, expect the final mark up to be well over 1,000 pages.
ReplyDeleteCentaur said...
ReplyDeleteJust curious: how many pages is this "piece of legislation"? Even if it's not the full text ...
262...
I read portions of the Mark when it was first released. The edits don't change much that I've seen.
Repost........
ReplyDeleteProponents of Health Care Reform accuse the opponents of "No-ism." That's a bogus charge. When a bus is being driven over the cliff, the first thing to is STOP the damn bus. There is no discussion on how the bus should be driven just STOP!
The bus is being driven off the cliff. Much of what is being proposed has been tried in the 50 laboratories of democracy called the States. Two place in particular, Washington State and Massachusetts. BOTH HAVE FAILED.
The Chairman's mark is more of an outline, a plan. Not the bill, not the DETAILS, with Congress the devil is in the details.
ReplyDeleteShould I show Congress my mark?
/ZIIIPPPPPPPPP
I can outline and detail too...better in snow though.
JCM -
ReplyDeleteYou're right.
Proponents of the health care overhaul point to the bus overheating and that a tire is low, and their solution is to drive it over a cliff instead of finding a place to add air and coolant.
Don't vote the yellow snow!
ReplyDeleteJCM, do you remember when the Cap and Trade bill had "placeholders" in it? Blank areas where language was to be inserted AFTER the bill passes. Rotten to the core.
ReplyDeletesb5k said...
ReplyDeleteJCM -
You're right.
Proponents of the health care overhaul point to the bus overheating and that a tire is low, and their solution is to drive it over a cliff instead of finding a place to add air and coolant.
Their Idea is to buy a new bus and tax you for the privilege. The law makers have special private buses.
Tenncare failed too.
ReplyDeleteHealth!
ReplyDeleteI need some money!
Health!
Tons and tons of money!
Health!
C'mon, let's get it done!
Heaaaaaalth!
When I was elected, in fact before that day
I decided the government over health would hold sway
There is a "public option" over which I'm enamored
And if I get my way, its sway will be assured
Health!
I promise your costs will go down
Bean-counters, you need not be comin' round
I don't want to hear the problems you have found
Don't you see?
Health!
Me!
Health!
Me!
--Beatle Hussein Obama
I can outline and detail too...better in snow though.
ReplyDeleteJust be glad your name isn't :
(Last name)
Wolfeschlegelsteinhausenbergerdorffvoralternwarengewissenhaf
tschaferswesenchafewarenwholgepflegeundsorgfaltigkeitbeschut
zenvonangereifenduchihrraubgiriigfeindewelchevorralternzwolf
tausendjahresvorandieerscheinenbanderersteerdeemmeshedrraums
chiffgebrauchlichtalsseinursprungvonkraftgestartseinlangefah
rthinzwischensternartigraumaufdersuchenachdiesternwelshegeha
btbewohnbarplanetenkreisedrehensichundwohinderneurassevanver
standigmenshlichkeittkonntevortpflanzenundsicherfreunanleben
slamdlichfreudeundruhemitnichteinfurchtvorangreifenvonandere
rintlligentgeschopfsvonhinzwischensternartigraum
Would take a long night in the pub without breaking the seal to get that one out.
buzzsawmonkey said...
ReplyDeleteHealth!
I need some money!
Health!
Tons and tons of money!
Health!
C'mon, let's get it done!
Heaaaaaalth!
lmao...I'm sure glad you showed up buzz!
Remind to have Sasquatch give you a big furry hug later.
buzzsawmonkey said...
ReplyDelete--Beatle Hussein Obama
Mmmmmmmm Mmmmmmmm Mmmmmmmm
FTFY
There really is something incredibly annoying about that "mmm mmm mmm," isn't there?
ReplyDeletePart of the required courses I had to take for the foster care license were about AIDS/HIV/STDs. Having spent years on the FD the precautions were old hat. What was stunning was the taxpayer provided service to someone HIV positive or with AIDS.
ReplyDeleteIn King Co. WA, home to Seattle if you are HIV positive it's basically a full ride to top flight medical care at taxpayer expense. It's not means tested, it's just there. It's claimed it's in the name of public health. When in almost all cases it's behaviorally contracted.
Do other behaviors have the same consideration? Only if their PC protected.
My daughter while in the state system ran up hospital bills of over $250,000 be cause the bio mom used drugs. All taxpayer funded.
Where are the people dying in the street bankrupt because of medical expenses (that's another fraud), refused treatment by evil insurance companies?
Children's Hospital in Seattle will treat everyone who comes through the door to the fullest extent regardless of coverage or ability to pay.
The question is WHERE IS THE CRISIS?
There is none unless you happened to attend Columbia and are a acolyte of Cloward & Piven and wish to bring out about radical change by fomenting crisis.
buzzsawmonkey said...
ReplyDeleteThere really is something incredibly annoying about that "mmm mmm mmm," isn't there?
When I first heard it, that damned thing stuck in a loop in my head for a full two days.
I can outline and detail too...better in snow though.
ReplyDeleteJust be glad your name isn't :
ROFL
I may get it Sas, but I don't think I can dot all the i's or cross all of the t's.
I thought Cloward & Piven was an upscale yuppie housewares store. Silly me.
ReplyDeleteFor long names, Monty Python discusses the greatest name in German baroque music
ReplyDeleteJohann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm
Remind to have Sasquatch give you a big furry hug later.
ReplyDeleteHows about I present a laurel and hearty handshake instead ?
My hugs are for the wimins.
Squatch even I cannot pronounce that name.
ReplyDeleteThere is definitely some letter switches that have taken place.
Hi C² community !
buzzsawmonkey said...
ReplyDeleteThere really is something incredibly annoying about that "mmm mmm mmm," isn't there?
I keep waiting for the Campbell's Soup commercial to kick in.
Wendy said...
ReplyDeletebuzzsawmonkey said...
There really is something incredibly annoying about that "mmm mmm mmm," isn't there?
When I first heard it, that damned thing stuck in a loop in my head for a full two days.
Then there is the Rush parody version....
Whiny poop machine has sounded the alarm.
ReplyDeleteBIAB.
I thought Cloward & Piven was an upscale yuppie housewares store
ReplyDeleteNever climbed past Bed, Bath & Beyond my budget.
Wally World is more my speed.....
You are insane. Damn you.
ReplyDeleteThat will be in my head for days.
There used to be a houseware chain called Lechters, and all I could think of when I saw them was if they had the utensils to cook fava beans and have a nice chianti....
ReplyDeleteJCM said...
ReplyDeleteI thought Cloward & Piven was an upscale yuppie housewares store
Never climbed past Bed, Bath & Beyond my budget.
Wally World is more my speed.....
With this economy, I've been shopping aisle 14 at WalMart....Dollar General looks good too.
For anyone who is not aware, that is not a slam at all. Totally in jocular fashion.
ReplyDeleteKid needs the computer. BBL.
Formercorpsman, good to see you!
ReplyDeleteSince the Rush parody used the Battle Hymn of the Republic, I offer the following silliness from a few months ago:
ReplyDeleteThe Battle Hymn of J. Alfred Prufrock
--with apologies to TS Eliot
Let us go then, both you and I, when evening out is spread
Like a patient who's been etherised, to all appearance dead
I have a question I must ask that's rattling in my head
As my life marches on...
What will you think of me now, sirs
As I age and I roll my trousers?
Mermaids I do not arouse, sirs
As my life marches on...
Mine eyes have seen the rooms wherein the women come and go
They talk, as fog swirls thick outside, of Michelangelo
I seek from one an answer to a question I must know
As my life marches on...
What will you think of me now, sirs
As I age and I roll my trousers?
Mermaids I do not arouse, sirs
As my life marches on...
At dusk I've trod the narrow streets and watched the smoke of pipes
Consoling lonely men at windows in their shirtsleeve stripes
I hope to avoid finishing like these pathetic types
As my life marches on...
What will you think of me now, sirs
As I age and I roll my trousers?
Mermaids I do not arouse, sirs As my life marches on...
I fear the answer I may get within the scented room
Where I have measured out my life as if with coffee spoons
A pair of claws on the seafloor should rightly be my doom
As my life marches on...
What will you think of me now, sirs
As I age and I roll my trousers?
Mermaids I do not arouse, sirs
As my life marches on...
Be back for the PUB!
ReplyDeletesb5k,
ReplyDeleteThere used to be a houseware chain called Lechters, and all I could think of when I saw them was if they had the utensils to cook fava beans and have a nice chianti...
---
There were some exchange students from England that I had the honor of showing around. Walking through the pedestrian zone they suddenly all stopped and burst of laughter.
They stood in front of the butcher 'Wankmüller'.
This "Chairman’s Mark" isn't going to be anything close to what the Senate ends up voting on anyway. As we speak, the Baucus bill is being merged with the other Senate bill in Reid's office. Whatever comes out of Reid's office will be what the Senate votes on.
ReplyDelete/so, whatever this Baucus "Chairman’s Mark" is or isn't, it doesn't mean diddley squat, it's a red herring
buzzsawmonkey said...
ReplyDeleteThere really is something incredibly annoying about that "mmm mmm mmm," isn't there?
So it's not just me. Cool.
New thread upstairs, everyone - we'll leave this one open though.
This ironically shows me the hopelessness of even a "send 'em all home" term-limits approach to this nonsense. Without congressmen who know their way around a bill, their slimy aides and lobbyists have their way with the bills while the new guys (even the good ones)are figuring out which way the bathrooms are.
ReplyDeleteNana just said downstairs that Rush is officially out of consideration for the NFL ownership - reason being his racist remarks.
ReplyDelete(The ones he didn't even make.)
Shame on everyone who advanced this lie (without apology). Just shame on them.
(Just my opinion. BTW: everyone, always please feel free to disagree with me or Bare, or anyone else on the staff. Level playing field on C2.)